Pogoda - Tools, Not Rules: Creating Your Own Path

speaker-0 (00:00.078) you speaker-1 (00:08.654) Welcome back to another episode of A Path Unfolding. I'm your host, Jesse Breda. And today I have a wonderful guest, Megan Pagoda. She is a VJ, content creator, performer, and now most recently, a builder. Megan, welcome to the podcast. Yeah, before we get going, I want to introduce, A Path Unfolding has our first sponsor. Hi, thanks for having me. speaker-1 (00:33.452) This is a clothing maker that I love and have been wearing for years, Rhythmatics. This is their new shirt, One World. And you can get 15 % off on their store if you use just code Jesse. And Mr. Wu, Chris Wu is a DJ. He's played at Lightning Bottle. He's all up and down the West Coast. He's got amazing stuff. It's all hand printed and screened in Portland, Oregon. So yeah, you guys support. Arithmetic and you can help support the store show and Megan. Welcome to the podcast. I'm so glad to have you Hi! It's funny, you've known me long enough to actually know that my first name's Megan. Everybody just calls me Pagoda now, but like that really shows that we've known each other for a long time. I always joke about that if I'm somewhere in a public place and I hear Megan, I'm like, who is that? Haha speaker-1 (01:23.096) Who is that? Yeah. Well, I'll just set the stage. Like last year at Lightning in a Bottle, you were working and doing some transport and doing everything as you do. And we were lucky enough, the whole crew from the Thunder Stage for you to kind of give us a ride back to LA as part of some other work that you were doing. you told me kind of your whole story and I was just absolutely fascinated and bowled over. And I was like, I got to get you on the podcast. I'm so glad we made some time. finally made it happen and yeah, I just wanted to jump in and learn and for everyone listening here, how you got involved in VJing and dance music and kind of your whole origin story. I thought that was just absolutely fascinating. So anywhere you want to start, let's get into it. I guess first would be like, how did you get into electronic music? How was that? How was that? How'd that get going? Okay, here we go. Well, riding in that car, I was thinking the whole time, like, we should just do a podcast in this car because it was basically what was happening. It was really cool that we happened to end up in the car together because I hadn't, I've seen you on and off over the years, but it's been a while and we haven't really gotten to sit down and spend hours together. And those are my favorite types of conversations when it's like one-on-one. And there's not a ton of distractions and the car ride was perfect for that. So I'm glad I got to know you more and tell you more about myself. And here we are. So let's see, how did I get started electronic music? Well, I didn't grow up listening to electronic music. I was a punk kid. I was into metal, punk, hardcore, like going to VFWs and dyeing my hair crazy colors and ripping up my clothes. Coming from, Yeah. speaker-0 (03:08.344) Catholic school and wearing uniforms for 13 years. As soon as I got out of that, I rebelled super hard and listened to really aggressive music. I had a lot of pent-up aggression. Yeah, I got pretty into the scene when I was in college. I was at Penn State and I lived with a friend who had a record label. So I got interested in just... the music industry in general because of that being around bands. started selling merch. I started working at the local club and venue and the radio station. I started messing around with lights. So that was kind of my introduction into the music scene in general. yeah, I didn't really even give electronic music a chance to me. electronic music was like DJs down the Jersey Shore and like clubs where dudes grope you. And I was like, I don't get it. I don't understand playing other people's music. This is just like not a scene I'm interested in. I want to see like stuff live made by the people who are playing it. So it really wasn't until I graduated and then I moved to Lake Tahoe of all places. And I was just living there being like a ski bomb and well, snowboard bomb. I never, still have never skied. My dad swore that he would, he would make fun of me if I skied. So yeah, so I got into snowboarding and kind of said screw the college degree. I got a degree in broadcast journalism, mostly because I liked using cameras and editing and just wanted to shoot all of my friends' bands. most of my projects looked more like VH1 behind the music than news reporter and I would go and shoot my friend's shows. anyway, graduated, didn't like realize I didn't want to work for a news organization because especially because I was so punk rock, I was like, this is all BS and it's just, I am too rebellious to like join the system and be a part of that. I like interviewed at a couple of news stations. I was like, I do not fit in here. speaker-0 (05:18.446) I'm not very conforming. I don't want to look the way that they want me to look and I don't want to report on things that I don't think are important. I wanted to report on important things. Unfortunately, that sort of career didn't quite exist yet because like YouTube was kind of just starting to happen and there was people like Michael Moore. who was like exposing things and I was like, okay, well, what I wanna do is either gonna get me killed or it's just not gonna make any money. So I kind of just floated around, snowboarded and was living in Tahoe and that's when I met a group of friends that at the time. I had no idea that they were in the electronic music scene and they were all producers, DJs, throwing parties. There were a bunch of raver kids from like grass valley, Nevada city area, which is now like a hotspot. But at the time, I had no idea. They were just these like cool hippie kids and they wanted to take me to my first rave and I was a little intimidated. it was just like not my scene, but I was curious. I had seen raves in movies. And I was like, they wear cool stuff and listening to different music and everybody knows how to dance. So I gave it, I gave it a chance and they took me to this rave at an abandoned saloon in grass valley. was like one of those like set your odometer. And I got there and it just looks so cool. I was like, it looks like a movie. Like everybody's in costumes. It's all black light. There's string art, these, these giant flowers. And I just. loved the look of it. And I was like, I feel like I'm in a different world. And I got there. And my first instinct was like, I'm gonna do some keg stands and impress all these these new people with how cool I am. Because that's what you do in the punk scene. So I did that. And it was not the vibe. But there was a few people are like, man, this girl is like here and ready to go. And so yes, I got a little drunk and it speaker-0 (07:27.04) It kind of allowed me to be a little bit more open to the music and tried some other things too. I remember just looking at the dance floor and seeing everyone having such a great time and dancing. was like, did all these people like take lessons? Like, how are they all so good at dancing? And I just, I just knew I wanted to move. Yeah. speaker-0 (07:51.214) I was super into moshing and like crowd surfing and all the stuff you do in the punk scene. it literally took this girl Amber, she took me by the hands and rocked me back and forth and like showed me how to move to the beat. And I was really fortunate that that party, was all like live PA. There was a lot of like beat machines and 909s. And I was like, this is cool. This is live. They are making the music right now. So it was... much different than the Jersey Shore DJs that I had seen before. just the way the people interacted was very loving. It wasn't this like, gropey, douchey, drunk atmosphere that I'd experienced in nightclubs. And I was... I don't know, from that moment on, I was sold. I was like, I like these people, I like this environment, I love dancing, had no idea that I liked to dance. And from then on, I started going out to some of the clubs in Tahoe, going to the Bay. And at the time, I was really into psytrance, which maybe tells you a little bit about me. That was my crossover. guess most people go to something a little bit easier. house music or something, I was like, Cy Trans had the fast driving beat, which reminded me of like death metal. it was like that just rhythmic primal sound that I could just stomp it out. And at like, like I had a lot of pent up energy. So it just felt really good to be on a dance floor and I started going to desert parties. And then my first festival was Burning Man. And yeah, Which also tells you a little bit about me. just kind of started with side trade as a birding man and, you know, living in Tahoe was only a few hours away. So I met a lot of people that were coming back from the burn that first year that I lived there and was just telling me all these crazy stories. I was like, whatever that is, I'm going to that next year. So, you know, I went to my first burn at like 21 with like a tent and like just, just the knowledge of the word of mouth. There really wasn't much on the internet. speaker-0 (10:01.582) Wow. I'm dating myself, but that was like 2006 that I went and that was kind of, you know, at a time when there wasn't much high tech anything going on out there. I remember going to Opulent Temple and being like, whoa, projectors crazy. They brought projectors out here and, uh, and like looking at them and trying to figure out how they were like dustproofing them and, and L-Wire, like there wasn't even that much like LEDs out there and stuff. was like, I gotta decorate everything with L-Wire and faux fur and making boot covers. And I was always really crafty. So the whole creative making costume side of it, like I was into it. Like before that it was like Halloween was my creative outlet. Now. I was just like, every weekend I can be a whole new character. So yeah, so I got pretty into the scene pretty quickly. I felt like I was making up for lost time. A lot of my friends have been doing this since they were teenagers. And I just started going everywhere that there was music that I loved. Like I was obsessed with infected mushroom. I remember going to the Bay to like probably like 10, 15 or something and seeing them. Especially because they were a live band too. They were a good crossover from the punk metal scene into electronic. Same thing with The Prodigy. I ended up seeing Prodigy at Ultra. I don't remember what year it was, but it was one of the best shows I've ever seen. And I started dancing at, I was a go-go dancer at the nightclubs in South Lake Tahoe and wore my cute little outfits and my big hair. And let's see, I did that for a couple years and realized, you know, I wasn't gonna be doing this for the rest of my life. I should probably, you know, get a career. Like not just be like a snowboarder, go-go dancer forever. I realized it was time to leave Tahoe and everyone is just telling me. speaker-0 (12:03.192) You need to move to LA. That's where like the entertainment scene is. If you want to be involved in music and video and art, like that's the place to be. I did love the Bay though. That's, probably where I should have went was going to the Bay, but I don't know. Someone just convinced me it was like Hollywood was the place. So I packed up all my stuff in my car, drove to Southern California. I had been there to Southern California like a few times growing up. I had family in San Diego, but Anyway, I made it down there, somehow ended up at Avalon. I think it was either Avalon or Vanguard, I forget. But for the first time, I saw Sandra Collins and her husband at the time, Velo, they were performing together. She produced the music and DJ'd and he did the visuals, which I had not really seen someone do visuals before, like actually mixing video live to the music. And I'll never forget like the first scene as she was starting was this image of a beating heart that went into our first track. And then she had this track float and there was all this underwater footage of her. And I was just like, oh my God, they like shot footage of her and they're mixing it live. And I was like, I got to find out who this guy is. And I did, I managed to find Velo and get his email. And I was just like, it was definitely like an aha moment for me. It was like, I learned all this, how to use cameras and how to edit. I didn't know what I wanted to do with it. Like music videos seemed like a cool option, but this like performing live, like I got a taste of it dancing on stage and I realized I actually liked to perform and I liked to be on stage and I liked to add to the party and like showing people how to dance, like just creating the whole scene. And yeah, so I hit him up. was like, I want to learn what you're doing. Can I intern for you? Like, I'll just like wrap some cords or something. And he, he was into it. He was like, there's not many women interested in this. I want to support you. We have some shows coming up. I could totally use your help. And at the time you needed like a ton of gear to VJ. It was like, he had like, speaker-0 (14:22.924) DVDJs, think at the time. he was like, he was like carting around DVDs and there were like V4s like the Eddie roll V4 analog mixers. People were like using effects on that. There was the chaos pad. He had a couple of different media controllers. It was like suitcases of stuff. It wasn't like a laptop and a flash drive similar to DJing starting, you know, people used to haul it around all their vinyl. But so yeah, so he definitely needed help and a lot of chord rapping and we did a couple shows, like club shows, and then it was probably like the third show or something, was EDC at the Forum in LA. I'm underneath, they play like the main stage and I'm underneath the booth like rapping chords and like getting everything plugged in and set up. like I stood up and I saw like, I don't know, like 40,000 people in front of me and I was just like, whoa, this is like, this is a whole nother level then. I thought it could even be like you have this captive audience that's all looking this way. There's really not that much to watch like what the DJ is doing. Like they're looking at what you're doing. They're watching the visuals that you're putting on the screen. You are guiding this party. Like you're such an integral, integral, important part of this. And that's when I realized like this, this is what I want to do. That is epic. Yeah, so that was how it all started. And then, you know, from there, I started throwing these like underground raves in San Diego at warehouses and like connecting with people, drum and bass parties and house music. Like pretty much anytime there was like a dark dingy warehouse, I wanted to bring in a projector and like hang a bed sheet or like create a screen or build something three dimensional to projection map. speaker-0 (16:17.39) I always said, just want to like art of this party. Like it was just like all these dark corners and weird things happening. was like, people need something to focus on. They need like something like beautiful to guide them. Whether it's, mean, it's like looking at mandalas, know, like having something to focus on kind of somewhat keeps people out of trouble. yeah, and that's, that's when I realized it was more than just something I was interested in. And like, it was a calling and it was, something that a way to channel the creative weird art video that I was already making. Yes, yes. I love it. Thank you. Well done too. I mean you hit the high points there. I mean it's, I love the, I love the punk rock spirit. I think with the introduction to your first like festival as Burning Man is absolutely wild. I think my first year was 2008 so it wasn't too too far behind you but there was, there's a lot more fire and a lot less LEDs back then. Yeah. I mean, of course, like, I don't want to be old and jaded, but it was different then. it was a lot more renegade. It was a lot more, you didn't really, there wasn't a whole information packet of like what, what you needed to do. And there wasn't so much you could find online. So yeah, and there's, there's a lot of, um, I mean, there's a lot of bravery in your story. There's a lot of like, I just want to try this. I think that's one of the things that I think is super cool about you. Just like, no fear, let's just full send it and see where we end up. I think there's. speaker-1 (17:47.928) There's a lot to be gained with that spirit and that like, you know, attitude approach to life of like, the worst that I can do is just kind of end up back on my ass. Like, you know, let's just try it. Let's see what happens. And the bravery to reach out to Velo and like see just, hey, like I'm always coaching some of the people, artists and different people that come to me. Like, how do I get started in the industry or make, just reach out to people? Like we're all wanting to really help each other. believe it or not, a lot more than I think people think early on. And I think that's a great lesson there. Yeah, especially in the VJ community, found like very supportive. There's not as much ego in VJing, especially because we're so often behind the scenes or front of house. It's a lot of, we're really nerdy. It's super nerds and you know, a lot of times we're not in front of the crowd. So we don't get that kind of. Yeah, the Uber nerds. speaker-0 (18:49.464) satisfaction of like seeing the crowd like worship us the same way that like a DJ or a dancer or performer does. So a lot of the VJs that I've met are just the sweetest people and they're immediately like, there's this new program. Let me show you how to use it. have you tried this? I just created this new content. Here it is. Like there's a lot of sharing of knowledge, content, tips and tricks. Like I've, I have a whole crew of VJs, especially in LA. that have just totally taken me under their wing and brought me into festivals and into gigs and helped me. Like I could text them at like two o'clock in the morning and be like, my computer crashed. What do I do? Or like my serial number just expired. Like, and they'll help you out. And I'm so grateful for the VJ community and how we've come together. And they're just like some of my favorite down to earth people. Love that. was going to tell you when I got into DJing, did a lot of DJing and then we were renting and selling sound systems and doing a lot of like audio stuff. And we did a lot with this club texture here in Austin and it had a gigantic wall. I think it was like maybe 20 or 30 by 30. I it was really large and they did projections every night. And there was these two guys that ran the video Friday and Saturday and my best friend and I who were doing all the audio, we're kind of starting to like check out their gear and be like, well, how do they do that? And like, we were throwing our own parties, but we just didn't really have that part dialed yet. And just like you're saying, they're like, well, we got this program and we do this and they do that. like, they, they taught us what we needed to know. And we ended up taking the Friday night and then they had the Saturday night. So they didn't have to do every night on the weekends. And then one of the guys that showed us, he ended up becoming my boss and I worked for his company for a really long time and we're still really good friends and it's just, I don't know, it just goes to show. It's like, man, it is a tight community and it's, there's so much to learn and, and if you don't know something, just ask and get in there and get involved. And we had a lot of fun. That was a lot of fun. speaker-0 (20:58.862) Totally, and like I love when new VJs come up to me and want to learn and I will sit down. I just had this girl from LA like take me out to lunch because she just wanted to pick my brain. I was like especially stoked when young girls are into it. I'm just like, oh, I remember when I was your age and I was starting out. Like I just want to give back the way that I was helped. And because, know, it wasn't even so much that I was introduced to an art form. Like this was like a whole career that for the past couple of decades, like took me all kinds of places around the world. got to play the best clubs and stages and festivals. Like so many times I had to like pinch myself. Like this, this is really a dream come true. And I couldn't have even imagined this career or life growing up because it didn't even really. So. Yeah. Yeah, you blazed the trail. I love that. Well, let's go into those highlights of like where all of that took you and some of the names that you got to work for and help create with. Yeah, well, see, I mean, I started in dingy warehouses. And then I guess some people would say the height of my career was when I was touring with Lil Jon. People still introduce me as Lil Jon's VJ. I'm like, that was like a decade ago. Yeah, I'm not gonna do that. you know, it was, it was around the time that Turn Down for What came out. So he had this huge resurgence and started like really touring heavily again, especially in the electronic music scene. You know, he'd always been really big in the hip hop scene and his sound kind of evolved and he worked with DJ Snake and they produced this like banger that just went viral. And it's really, I think because of turned down for what he also says partially because of what's his name in front of him on the Saturday night live, Dave Chappelle. He was like Dave Chappelle may be relevant again. But yeah, when, when it was. speaker-1 (22:50.189) Yeah. speaker-0 (22:56.844) Yeah, about the time turned down for what came out and we started touring. First, it was just in the States. He hit me up and was like, do you want to do the show with us in Orange County? And I was like, I don't know about this scene. It's like, I don't like the way they talk about women. Like I was, I was very in the like techno scene at the time, which is like really snobby and just like, you know, his music was very elementary compared. comparatively, you know, it's pop music. And I just, never even like listened to pop music. I was like, I don't even know any of the songs that you were in in the nineties. Like this is, this is all new to me, but I gave it a try. I heard he was a cool guy and we ended up meeting up after the show and just totally hitting it off. Like, remember I was wearing this big crystal necklace and he was like, I saw you, see you're onto some spiritual shit. I was like, okay, I could work with you. And so we started doing shows. He even told me too, he was like, you know, I was like a punk skater kid growing up. So we're not that different. There you go. Yeah. And so we started doing shows together and then like we toured Europe together. We did South America. You know, it's like private jets and fancy hotels and just like all of the pop star life without. me having to be famous was really nice because being famous adjacent was one thing. Like I got to enjoy all of the awesome things that come along with being famous, but without having to deal with being recognized everywhere you go. Cause he can't go anywhere. Like he can't even really like hide who he is. puts on sunglasses are his look. Like I told him, like, if you take off the sunglasses, maybe people won't recognize you. But you know, when you have like a sunglasses in the grill, like everybody knows you are. So I, that's, that's when I realized I was like, you know, growing up, you're like, I want to be rich and famous, but seeing it from that perspective, I was like, I, I'm down to be like famous in a, in my scene. I just, I don't want to be household name famous. With that comes this huge responsibility of being a public figure that I'm not. speaker-0 (25:10.83) It's not something that I'm really geared for. But I do enjoy influencing the people around me and in my community. I joke that I'm an IRL influencer. So yeah, who else have I worked with? I've worked with tons of artists. I was a resident in Vegas for years. I worked at Marquee and TAL and Hacasson and I opened Light in Las Vegas, which was one of Coolest places I've ever seen, was a Cirque du Soleil nightclub when it started. Cirque is no longer involved with it, but at the time we had like the best technology. We had like thermal cameras and we were doing like reactive stuff with all the performers dropping down from the ceiling. We spent two months in the club programming this whole place and working with the choreography and creating these tableaux that were completely rehearsed and would just completely transform the space. All of a sudden we're underwater and there's mermaids dropping down from the ceiling and there's just all these characters roaming around and... I don't actually know what that word is tableau like it's a whole like the home a whole moment or like a scene Yeah, basically like a moment it would be like a song long and it would just be this rehearsed Choreographed like from everything from the lighting the visuals the performers the rigging everything like super dialed and We worked with an amazing team from Montreal called moment factory that was like on site creating like changing the content They're like, actually we need the moon to be more green or something and they would speaker-0 (26:52.174) change it right there in the spot, then give the content back to me. I would load it in and then I would program it to the walls and we would just practice and practice it for two months till we got it like Cirque du Soleil likes things to be really perfect. Like very different than the other club stuff I had worked in, which it was just kind of like make it up, make it go to the music, make it darker in here. I was once told by a club manager not to use green ever. He didn't like green. I just don't know what- you're taking away a whole color from me, you can't- Yeah, that's some deep trauma there. I know, I was like, some songs just are green. I don't know what to tell you. But yeah, so I did all the Vegas stuff, got pretty burnout on that. It's, know, Vegas is a lot of the same music and it's kind of uninspiring. So I started working more directly with individual artists and that's when I teamed up with John and... I also, did shows with Deep Dish for a while. I went to South America and did Creamfields. I did like several Creamfields dates. Those guys were great, really fun. You know, they've been around forever, super pro. It was, it was an interesting shift going from like the little John scene to the, back to the techno scene that I was originally in. I had rainbow hair at the time. Everybody wears black. I stood out like a sore thumb, but it was great. It made me memorable. speaker-0 (28:17.452) And then more recently, like several years ago, I started doing shows with Club on Stroke and then later as Barclay Crenshaw. And yeah, like, you know, different friends that are DJs, performers, just kind of float around whenever I feel inspired. I don't VJ as much anymore. You know, it used to be my full-time gig for, I don't know, over a decade, probably like 15 years. especially when I was a resident in Vegas, I've, I've over the last five years or so I've, I've taken a step back and gotten back into more content creation, working with more theatrical performances, stuff that doesn't keep me up quite so late at night and in so many nightclubs and in so many environments that I kind of feel I've outgrown and I mean, I really enjoy directing and creating the content. And when I'm always in a nightclub and working long hours, it takes so much of my energy that, especially during that period of time when I was a resident, I felt so creatively uninspired and I never want that to happen again. So now it's more like I hit up artists that inspire me directly and see if they wanna work together. Wow. Dope. That is the journey. And I'm looking behind you. I believe like this is your tiny home and you built this, right? Yes, this is my tiny house. It's still, it's still under construction, but yeah, I built this house from, I bought a triple axle trailer is basically just a trailer frame. I bought some plans, watched a lot of YouTube videos, invited a few friends who actually know what they're doing and started building a tiny house. And of course I wanted to film it and document like the whole process. Anybody I told. speaker-0 (30:22.67) about building a house. They're like, we want to see you. want to see. So I started having a friend shooting it. And then it just evolved into this whole thing of like, actually we need to create a show and like not just a show, but like a brand and a community. I, especially after so many years of working in digital art and staring at computers, I really welcome this, working with my hands and still filming and now being the one in front of the camera and actually getting back to what I went to school for, like hosting and creating scripts and creating show arcs and all that. yeah, so we spent the last two years building my house, shooting it. And right now we've been editing episodes to release to YouTube. There's like a whole YouTube channel in the works. I have a shoot with Makita coming up soon. Yeah, so just figuring out how to be a YouTuber, really. Yeah. Nice. speaker-1 (31:30.284) What's the name of the brand? Uh, it's called build it Betty's, know, it's just a play on like Rosy D the Riveter, but, uh, the builder version. And what I want to do really is to just inspire and empower women to pick up tools and build things on their own. I don't expect everyone to build a tiny house or a whole house, but I've had women come up to me and say that they follow me on social media and they saw me building my house and. they realize, I have these shelves I've been trying to build or trying to hang for years. And I've just been waiting for my husband to do it. And I realized if she can build a house, I could probably hang these shelves. like hearing stories like that, that that makes me so happy. Like just just hearing that someone got up the courage, like you can learn so much on YouTube right now. Like, like half of this house was built through YouTube and chat, GBT and Like I just, go to Home Depot and I literally like sometimes just like sit on the ground in the aisle and just like research things. I'm like watching videos. They're trying to help me. I'm like, I don't know. It's kind of this like weird thing. I'm trying to like install a faucet backwards or something. so yeah, Build It Bettys has kind of taken over my life for the last couple of years. I still have been dipping my toes back into the festival scene and into the visual scene, because again, I'm always searching for balance, because I was getting so heavily into the building that I was like, kind of just like creating art and like going to parties and dancing and stuff. now I'm kind of reaching a place where I want to do both. Like I want to host the show. I want to create the community. I want to inspire women, but also like I want to dance around on stage and I want to create visuals and I want to be a part of that world too. speaker-1 (33:18.99) Yes. I love that. love that. Yeah. I was inspired when you told me that you built your tiny home. You know, I've just recently kind of taken up some more like fine woodworking and building, you know, cabinets and shelving and things like that. And it's just so much fun to get your hands dirty, especially because I also spend a lot of time in front of a screen. And I think it's a really nice antidote to that. because it just, I don't know, think you can work in front of a computer all day and then stand up and you don't really have a lot to show for it. And you kind of feel like you just poured your soul into that thing. when you make something physically, you see it and it's like, also it's a little more unforgiving, know, have an undo button. So you kind of think a little more clearly, a little bit more strategically. And I think that translates back into some of other work we do. That's been a nice feeling. It's been like, yeah, this is cool. Plus my father was a cabinet maker and I'm like, there's a little bit of like heritage here. can like get in touch with my aunt's son. Yeah, same. My dad did interior remodeling and everything and build homes and commercial residential, all that. So I grew up around tools. And also my mom was really crafty. So I always joke that I'm like, if Martha Stewart and Bob Vila had a kid, that would be me. Like I'm really into like the cute interior design part, but like I also love just structural, structural building. there's, is, it's like people don't look at the trades as art, but being an artist my whole life, it really, so many times, you know, I hit a snag or I'm trying to figure something else and I have to, I have to creatively problem solve. there's just something amazing too, especially with woodworking is my favorite. love an organic materials. I love working with, I love the smell of wood, like the smell of Home Depot. If you could just like bottle it, like I love a speaker-1 (35:22.766) What perfume is that? that's Home Depot. Yeah, lovely, lovely. I wanted to create one and call it lumber because lumber is like my favorite smell. It's nostalgic. It's organic. I love building and woodworking cabinetry, especially it's a puzzle. I built all my cabinets custom because it's a trailer and you need to build around real wheel wells. And also I've started using my house before it's totally finished, which I wasn't planning to do, but it It actually was a great idea because now I can see like, this stuff should go in a drawer here. So let me build the drawer and I want the drawer to be this high. If I had just built stuff, then it might not exactly be in the right place and I'd want to change it. So now that I'm actually using it, I literally can see my stuff in the place and realize which, which is going to be a drawer, which is going to be a cabinet. Yeah. of changes. go. That's done. speaker-1 (36:22.742) And plus the house is mobile, obviously it's on a trailer so you can go park it wherever you want to be. So where are you right now? Yeah, yeah, right now I'm in Escondido on my friend's property, my friend Josiah, and his dad has owned this property for over 40 years and it's incredible. It's in North County, San Diego, if you don't know where Escondido is, but it's this beautiful little pocket. It kind of almost sometimes reminds me of Hawaii a little bit. It's quite lush. We get a good amount of moisture. It doesn't freeze, so we can grow a lot of tropical plants here. a lot of citrus. There are so many species of plants here that I don't even know all of them yet because Dennis, Josiah's dad, he specializes in rare and exotic florals, fruits, vegetables. So everything we have here is some like weird version of. Wow. speaker-0 (37:17.87) something typical like we have yellow watermelons and black tomatillos and purple corn and we have these berries that taste like curry that like just all the stuff I've never heard of before. there's an acre garden in front of my house. I it's like my every morning I wake up and I go out there and I just like eat tomatoes and like pick some stuff that I'm going to use later that day and the cucumbers are amazing. So yeah, I was really fortunate to land in this spot. I actually built the house. on a different property, not far from here, but my friend had a really good setup with a paved area and like a covered RV space and it already had power and water and everything. So that made it lot easier to store all of my materials and tools while I was working on the house. yeah, and then when it was time to move on, I was just looking for a place with one good views where I'm in. Where I am right now, there's a nature preserve on one side and there's like a state park on the other. We're just in this little valley. We're not far from town, but it feels like you're really out here. Like all I hear is owls and coyotes and frogs at night. There are quite a few roosters in the neighborhood, which I've gotten used to, but it's definitely farm life out here. There's, there's a lot of horses. There's a mushroom farm across the street. There's tons of avocado, citrus, cactus. There's. I've, I've been living out of the city for a while now. I've, I've lived on a few different properties and I don't know if I could ever go back to living in a city. Like this is, this is the life I love. love being barefoot in the dirt. And again, it's another way to balance out my technological world is to go outside and be in sunshine and breathe clean air and grow my food. I think you're also like pretty deep on into yoga, right? speaker-0 (39:15.394) Yeah, I don't think I'd be able to do any of this without yoga to be honest. Yeah, it's not just the physical stretching too, it's the being able to clear my mind. And I always have so many projects going on, it's overload, like I can lay in bed and just think about like how two pieces of wood fit together. Like I just, I'm just assembling things in my head all the time or I'm thinking I'm visualizing like the next project or shoot I'm gonna do. but things like yoga and meditation really helped ground me, put me back into my body, remind me that I have a body. Like a lot of us computer nerds like tend to forget and we're not like eating well or remembering to eat or not stretching or undoing like all of the stress that we take on. And I just think it's so important. I even said that in an interview for Build It Bettys, the interviewer asked me what... my favorite tool was, and I was like, my favorite tool is yoga. Like that's, that's if I don't do yoga for a week, like everything suffers. So yeah, that's one thing I also got from the festival community is all of these tools for mitigating stress and being more present. And it's, it's part of the reason I've been so involved in the festival community for so long. It's, it's not just the music and partying. I really like the community. Yeah. speaker-0 (40:41.406) I really like learning from others. It's that tribal, like learning from your elders. I love workshops. Like I don't festival the way I used to anymore. I like to go to bed early and I like to do all the workshops. And I love seeing the evolution of more of that happening and more young people being interested. Like I went to Ellis Dream's Light Code sound bath and same same a few weeks ago and it was packed. It was so I was so impressed. I was so impressed that everybody got up and came to the sound bath. I was like, you all need this. You've been overstimulated for three days. Like you all need a sound bath. Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's so much of this stuff like breath work and yoga and how, like how to eat healthy and, you know, all like mindfulness and I love, I love all that. I mean, it's, it's such a, it's such a just gift to have that accessible at these festivals that, you know, when I was growing up, it was like, you know, nothing like that, nothing. So just to be like, what? Like, it gets, it is a little overwhelming. Like I want to go to that. I'm actually just gonna go work and run the stage. You need to do yoga too so that you can better work and run the stage. It makes everybody interact better with each other. Like whenever I've been doing all these different jobs at festivals lately, because I'm like, where do I fit into this community still? like, know, even at LIB I was running transportation, which I not something I ever expected to be doing, but I was with a really great team. all artists. speaker-0 (42:22.062) We're not like truck drivers or anything, but we're already in the scene and we wake up and do yoga together, then we go out and dance together. That's my favorite part of the festival life is really the community and what you have to offer people. I got into tea, that's like a whole nother. side of my life. got into herbalism and tea and I was traveling around and doing my tea trailer at festivals for a while because I wanted to create a space for people to relax, have a hot drink and I love seeing people talking and connecting and just good conversation because you know it's really hard to like yell over a sound system. which I always find myself doing anyway. I love to dance and I love music, but then I'll meet someone cool. We just want to talk and talk and talk, but we're like in front of a sound system. So I love just like creating those little zones. Like I love that I've been seeing more tea lounges and stuff at festivals because yeah, it's, we're all here together for this period of time. Like let's share all that we have. Yeah, yeah, I think it's funny because like the headlining music actors were kind of bringing everybody together, but I think the most memorable moments are always just like that new friend you made or that really cool conversation you had at that weird experience that was off to the side. Those side quests I think are where it's at. Exactly. Yeah. I think like Burning Man was my first festival. LIB was actually my second festival, but that was in like 2006 or 2007, I forget. Wow. When it was up in Santa Barbara and that was something that stood out to me was that there was so much interactivity and there were so many artists there. was very, it's like everybody that's running LIB now was at that LIB. Now we just do it for everyone else. And that was just like, speaker-0 (44:21.058) That was something that struck me. was just like, everybody here is participating. Like there's, there's not even spectators. It's really like, come to my workshop, come to my performance. I'm going to be doing the hug deli later. Come get a hug. Like whatever it is, people find a way to participate. Big or small or whatever. Even like this year at same, same, someone on the dance floor came up to me and was like, do you want to do a breath work? Just like in out of nowhere, someone I didn't know came up to a group of us and sat us down and it was like one of the best breath work experiences I've ever had. And it was just on the dance floor and it was such a nice reset. And it's things like that. It's like the participatory spirit. I don't know. I love to foster that any way I can. Yeah. Creating two lounges was kind of my way of doing that for a while. That and just. spreading herbal medicine and letting people know that there's ways to heal yourself or, you know, feel good that are aside from drugs and alcohol. Yeah, it's such a rabbit hole though. I don't even know where to start. I mean, there's so much to learn. I mean, I don't know. Tell me a little bit. Let's dive into it for a second. There it is. speaker-0 (45:40.834) Well, I started with teas and I was doing the little teardrop trailer that I called the tea drop trailer for a while. So I started learning about herbs that way. And then it evolved into, I was doing a lixir bar out of a Sprinter van with my previous partner. And we were traveling around and that kind of like escalating into like more herbal medicine and we were doing tinctures. And I always say, One of the teams that I serve that I recommend to everyone is Gynostemma or Zhaogulan is the Chinese name. It's not caffeinated. It grows wild in Southern China. You can actually grow it here too. I haven't successfully done it yet, but it's a vine. It's an adaptogen. It has like so many phytochemicals that your body can use to basically mitigate stress. Similar to ginseng in a lot of ways, they call it the herb of immortality and it's from this area of southern China that's a blue zone. So they analyze it and these people were drinking this tea every day. It's really dark green and just rich with so many vitamins and minerals. I think really people see tea as like the caffeinated stuff to replace coffee, but like there's a whole nother world of herbalism that as you start using different herbs, and you get a taste for them and you actually start tasting the herbs instead of like adding tons of sugar or like putting them in other things. It's interesting how your body starts to like crave the things that you need. And I don't know, I love it. I love when someone comes to me that isn't feeling well and I can help them through whatever witchy concoction I can come up with because I've tried it myself. And yeah, I love the world of plant medicine. mean, it's been around for thousands of years, way before we had like modern medicine and I really believe in it. And I also believe in modern medicine, but I think that there's like a balance of staying healthy. mean, since I've gotten into herbals, I'm the healthiest I've ever been. Yeah, it can't hurt to drink plants. speaker-1 (48:05.483) Yeah. Unless this is the wrong plants, I guess. Yeah, I mean, think there's sort of the naysayers or whatever, but I mean, like you said, it's this knowledge that's been passed down for thousands and thousands of years. And people have, you know, there's just this lineage of knowledge and experience and people that have tried it and it worked. And I think the other thing in our diets and our modern society is like, I think a lot of people are having deficiencies from certain minerals and vitamins. like vitamin D and things like that. And it's like, well, you can get this stuff from me. So I'm, love it. mean, another, another, like another thing that you've like dove head into and that's amazing. And I also just love the culture around tea too. Around the world, there's so many different tea cultures, especially in Asia, India. I love the ritual of it also, and just the sitting down and the pouring of tea and the quiet time, and even the cafe vibe too, of just the talking and sharing. I just think it's a beautiful practice, and I will continue to promote teas for as long as I live. speaker-1 (49:23.726) Is there anything else you're really excited about or want to chat about? Well, I'm excited to really get back into visuals now that my house is almost totally completed. And we're kind of getting in a flow with Build It Bettys, too, as far as how we want to shoot episodes and how we're actually going to monetize it. So now that I feel like we've gotten that whole part figured out, I really want to get back into visuals. And I'm approaching it, like I said before, more like wanting to connect with artists that really inspire me. And since I've been doing festivals again this year, like I've just been getting really inspired by seeing new artists and people around me that I've known for a while that are doing new things. And yeah, I've also been connecting with a lot of artists and performers, dancers, choreographers. My friend Sky in LA is an amazing dancer and choreographer that does a lot of traditional Asian dances. combined with a lot of hip hop and more modern dance. And we did a show at LIB a couple years ago called Chimera. And she has a whole crew called Chimera Wanderbeasts that performs on a lot of stages. They were on a bunch of stages at LIB this year. But she choreographed this whole 15 minute performance and I curated all the visuals to match the audio. And it was basically a backdrop to help tell the story. That really inspired me. Like, I love the storytelling aspect. I love the theatrical. I love live performers, especially being coming from a live performance background and dancing myself. I love the dynamic live performers in the visuals. Also on stage, I like creating that dimension. I would also like to be in the visuals too. I spin float flags, these silk flags on chains. speaker-0 (51:18.518) I've been getting back into that and getting such an amazing reaction and more people asking me to come and flag for their performances and realizing like, I do love to be on stage and like seeing people's faces, like not always like in the crowd, front of house. Like it's really fun to like see people's reactions and it just like fuels me. Which is not something like before I started dancing, like I didn't even realize I had that in me. I didn't realize that like I was a performer. Yeah. speaker-0 (51:47.96) I was also really afraid to be on stage for most of my life. I was kind of shy as a kid. But yeah, so now I would like to do more like taking performers into the studio, shooting them, creating visual content around them, and then having them live on stage and then also them in the visuals behind them. I'm experimenting with lasers now too. And there's some new programs that I just... learned about, I feel like I'm catching up on a lot of technology. literally you leave for like a couple of years and there's like so much new stuff. I had the opportunity a couple of weekends ago to reconnect with Andrea Jones at an event here in San Diego that I was flagging for. And he and I know each other from way back. We actually met when I was working in that nightclub in Vegas and he came to demo his program that he created. I think he created for Tipper. but basically there's a track pad and he uses his art. I remember I met him as Andrew and he came in and he demoed it and the club was like, that's cool. But like, I think it was just like a little too artsy for what they wanted, but I was just like, who are you? What is this thing that you created? This is really cool. What is this art? And we kind of just connected because of that and started following each other and then really didn't see each other again until Shambhala years later. is such a magical place where we actually reconnected there too. might have actually been the same year. I've made so many. It is such a magical place. speaker-0 (53:23.918) It's so magical. I've had so many good connections and amazing experiences and it's just such a beautiful place. And there's a pagoda stage. Yeah, I was gonna say that. I got to run the pagoda stage for four years and I can't wait to go back. I love that place. It's absolutely beautiful. Anyway, Andrew and I have stayed connected over the years and kind of gone in different directions in our visual journey, but I've always wanted to see how we can collab. And I think now that I'm seeing different technology and how he's running his show and incorporating the flags, I think we're finally figuring it out. And I'm really excited to pursue that in the future. It's like I'm creating these visuals, not even to music. I just have these visual ideas in my head. And now it's just a matter of finding the right music artists that we bring on, that we were cohesive. Also, I like someone that like, I do miss touring and I would like someone that likes to travel the way that I like to travel. You know, like with Lil Jon, I can only go to so many strip clubs. It's just like not, he's not like that anymore actually. But yeah, I like to go hiking. You know, when I was in Europe with them, like I was like off hiking in Austria by myself all the time or like, you know, we'd be in all these beautiful places and I just wanted to hike and sightsee, not just go to strip clubs. But yeah, so right now I'm just, I'm open and like really just been connecting and experimenting. Like I love that I want to get back into shooting. like weird experimental art video and seeing what we can do with like the lights and the lasers and projection and live performers and creating an experience that isn't just like on a screen, something that's like fully immersive is the goal. Yeah. I'm excited for what the future of that holds and just keep connecting with people in the meantime. speaker-1 (55:33.932) Yeah, I think the experimental, experiential stuff is there's so much opportunity there that like the tools are there now, right? Before I think like the tech, like it's gonna be so hard to even just put a video on the screen and live mix it, but now we can do all of this stuff with like TouchDesigner and Ableton and everything can talk to each other really well. And so it's not such like, you don't burn yourself out just trying to get the two programs to like have a conversation. You're like, Okay, do this thing and it'll actually do it. You're like, okay, we got the frameworks and the piping all laid really well. And now it's like, okay, it's time to be creative with this stuff. Yeah, I'm really excited about like the opportunity to tell stories more too. More than just like pretty stuff on the screen. I come from journalism. I love storytelling and I love costuming and I love taking people to places and showing emotions and really creating like visceral experiences because that's That's what it was for me when I first got inspired, know, that first time seeing that beating heart, I was like, I want to create more of that for people. circle. Love it. Wow. Well, that feels like a good note to kind of end on. I'm so happy we sat down. You are a beautiful, amazing, talented, powerful person. I respect you a lot. All that you've created and done and the community that you participate in. It was so dope to just hear your story and share your story. So thank you and I can't wait to see you again. speaker-0 (57:08.43) Yeah, I appreciate you being in my life and always showing up at these like random times, whether it's on a stage or I'm giving you a ride to the airport, but we always have such great conversations and connection. And yeah, it's been great doing this for others to see. Yeah. All right. Megan Pagoda, thank you. Talk soon. Thanks. Thank you.